Pox parties
That’s what’s on the agenda today. Friends are coming over to try and catch chicken pox. Hasenpfeffer (in the comments) was asking why we didn’t get the shot given that some medical people argue that the shot does a better job of protecting a person from contracting shingles later. I’ve read just the opposite, too — that pox in the wild does a better job of protecting people from shingles and Brett and I found that argument more convincing.
Truthfully, I think it’s nearly impossible to find unbiased information about vaccines (Are the mainstream sources the most rooted in research or are they the most rooted in vax manufacturers PR? Are the alternative sources alarmist and paranoid or just not afraid to uncover the truth?) so we sifted through the arguments, talked to our doctor and decided that we would leave the kids un-chicken pox vax’d until they were about ten and then get the shot if they hadn’t caught it by then. We’ve had three different docs since Noah was of the chicken pox vaccine age and all of them felt this was reasonable and responsible.
The vaccination has only been around for a little more than two decades (in Japan) and so the long-term impact isn’t really known. At the same time, it’s changing the climate of chicken pox where having multiple exposures to it may be what actually gives us lifelong immunity. It may be that everyone — non-vax’d and vax’d alike — will need boosters at some point.
Some of the research we read says that wild chicken pox confers protection from other diseases but again, that’s controversial. Then we read research that people who get wild chicken pox are more likely to get it again and yet more research that people who are vax’d can still catch it (giving us some concern that we would vax and the kids would get it in their teens anyway). There are several documented accounts of chicken pox outbreaks at schools and daycares where all (or the vast majority) of the kids were vax’d but caught it again.
This is a decision I made for my family based on what I read and discussions with our medical professionals. Also, my children do not have skin disorders, asthma and are not immune compromised (all reasons to get the shot). I fully respect and understand anyone else making a totally different decision based on their own research and discussion with their medical professionals. I certainly would NOT want to tell anyone that they were wrong for choosing the vaccination. We came thisclose to choosing it ourselves.
Edited to add: People can get waivers to get past the vaccination requirements of schools and daycares. This has not be an issue for us because both kids are otherwise fully vaccinated (I might have done a more delayed schedule with Madison had she been breastfed and with Noah had I known enough to think about it but otherwise they are both fully vax’d). But among my friends, several of the kids who are either totally not-vax’d or selectively vax’d (choosing some but not others or choosing an alternative vax schedule) most go to school of some kind.
Both sides of the controversy (you will note these sources directly contradict each other at times) are below the cut. I tried to go pro/con leapfrogging each other:
–What the CDC says
–From Mothering Magazine: Why have a chicken pox party?
–Mostly progressive Dr. Greene takes a more conservative stance
–National Vaccine Information Center (an anti-vax group) talks chicken pox
–University of Maryland Medical Center weighs in
–Direct anti-vax discussion specifically about shingles
–Baby Center says to get the shot
–The UK is less sure about the chicken pox vaccine than the US
–The Mayo Clinic promotes the vaccine
–The rabidly pro-alternative medicine site Mercola has many anti-chicken pox vaccine arguments
–The American Academy of Pediatrics has chicken pox info
Something else that parents will need to consider is that many school systems do require this vaccine (and many others) before their child can be accepted into classes. Even a licensed care-giver will have preferences to what children they take in based on vaccinations.
Interesting! You’re the first person I “know” to not vaccinate, and this is the first time I’ve disagreed with you, and yet, I totally respect your decision and feel like you’re the first sane person I’ve heard doing this. How weird is that?
Thanks Dawn - that’s a lot to think about while deciding whether or not to vaccinate my own kid against chicken pox. I’m “totally” for all the other recommended vaccines, but am back and forth on this one. I think waiting whether they catch it on their own until ten is totally a sane thing to do. So thanks for the food for thought, I appreciate it!
We were going to hold of on Vaxing M. Even though we had discussed holding off on the CP vaccine in great detail, when A took her to her Dr. appt and the Dr asked if he wanted her to have the “varicella” vaccine (rather than saying Chicken pox) so he didn’t make the connection and agreed. Thus, M is vaccinated.
A gets shingles from time to time, so they are a real concern around our house. They suck.
I think vaxing homeschooled kids for cpox is totally optional. I even thought vaxing schooled kids was optional–until my unvaxed daughter caught them at the age of four and they got passed to several of the infants at her daycare, some of whom become Very, Very Sick. If I had it to do over again, I’d vaccinate (which I did with my son afterwards when he didin’t catch them from his sister), if only so that I’d never again have to live through seeing an eight-month-old with scabs all over his face and hearing about how a six-month-old finally would take a bottle again, now that the blisters in her mouth had healed…
after spending almost a month in a developing country and visiting an orphanage that depends on charitable donations for EVERYTHING from formula to ibuprofen, I have a hard time with the rejection of vaccinations in this country. How odd to me…..Kids in other countries literally die for them.
Coming, as I do, from a long-line of proud hypochondriacs in which hypochondria takes the form of obsessive fear of medication and simultaneous dependence upon AND mistrust (and ignoring) of traditional physicians, I just had to not even look at the vax/anti-vax arguments.
I couldn’t trust myself to make a clear decision. I did hold off on flu until after she had tried egg whites to make sure there was no allergy issue, but otherwise, I just said to heck with it and let them stab her.
Now I’m really glad I did, as one of her frequent care providers has Hep B. Not that this means anyone else should do what we did. But I think it was lucky for us in our particular situation that we went with the vax schedule the doc receommended.
I was against the pox vaccine; Matt wasn’t. He felt more strongly than I, so he won. We’re pragmatic that way.
I actually had wild pox twice — once very mild and once very bad, though not as bad as my niece, who was hospitalized at age 3. Just rough to see kids sick.
I’m less torn on other vaccines. I feel really strongly about it, so strongly that I’m not even going to begin typing. Suffice it to say there’s risk in everything, and I choose the lesser risk for myself and family.
On another note, illegal aliens where I live (from Mexico) are so afraid of being “caught” that they aren’t vaccinating their kids. It’s actually becoming quite a problem. The fear is understandable. The medical establishment tries to get the word out that they don’t have anything to do with INS, but it’s difficult.
I am about as pro-vaccine, rah-rah-Western-medicine, herbs?-yeah-RIGHT as it gets, and I think I’d probably go with the pox party. Vaccines are wonderful, wonderful things, but given that there are also some necessary drawbacks to delivering infectious agents in the form of a vaccine AND given that there is still a lot of dissension over the cpox vaccine effects, I personally would likely try everything possible to get things over with “naturally.”
Still am going to have the sweet, sweet drugs if I ever end up giving birth, though.
Oh, if you want a real blast from the past, one of the Great Brain books (delightful series) has a bit in which we find out that when one of the three boys gets an infectious disease, the other two have to hang around him until they get it as well, so that the mom gets it all over with quickly. Only we’re not just talking about chicken pox — we’re talking about measles, mumps, etc. I was incredibly glad to have been born in the age of vaccination after that one.
I had chicken pox as an adult.
So did my exH (and father of my kids).
There is *no way* we’d give a chicken pox vaccine with such strong evidence leading to people catching it later until our kids hit puberty. That said, our kids don’t have asthma, allergies, skin diseases, aren’t immuno-compromised, etc. And I don’t do daycare before age 3 nor do I send my kids to daycares with infants. (It’s a personal political statement).
We’ve never had problems with people insisting on vaccination. We just got waivers. We also delayed the MMR and staggered others.
The vaccine was not available when our children were little. ( early 1980’s) Both children were exposed MULTIPLE times to multiple children with chicken pox, no luck. Children are now 25 and 28, still have not gotten the chicken pox.
Vaccine’s don’t always take either. 28 year old daughter has been vaccined for Rubella 3 times and still does not test positive.
Good luck in the decisions to vaccinate or not. With either choice, I don’t think there are any guarantees for a perfect outcomes.
Lady
In Australia the chickenpox vaccine is only just being introduced. It’s not part of the official vaccination schedule as far as I know. It certainly wasn’t when my 7yo was a baby. He had all the other vaccinations, though a bit late (and I now wish I’d given them even later than we did). He had chickenpox itself when he was two. Most kids we know have had the disease and it’s not a major drama. I’m glad he’s had it. I thinkk the west is in danger of vaccinating ourselves into a state of immuno-weakness.
I’m not a doctor or scientist, but I think I’ve read that immune systems are weakened by viruses and pathogens rather than vaccinations. People who take prednisone or methotrexate for example, have weakened immune systems while they take those drugs. thanks! bye
I served as a Research Analyst on a varicella (chickenpox) surveillance project that monitored the effects of the chickenpox vaccine on a community of 300,000 persons. Based on 10+ years of study, I have found that cell-mediated (as well as humoral) immunity wanes over time when children are not periodically exposed to the chickenpox virus. What this means is–is this: whether or not a person is vaccinated or contracts the chickenpox naturally via a party, the immunity is NOT life-long. Over a period of time, the immunity declines which can result in either a second case of chickenpox or the reactivation of the varicella-zoster virus as shingles (herpes zoster). Prior to the chickenpox vaccine, adults use to receive an immunologic boost that helped to postpone or suppress the reactivation shingles. Since chickenpox exposures have now become rare, in the absence of these exogenous (outside) exposures, the incidence of shingles is increasing.
More information is available at my website and in my book http://www.injectionbook.com. All positive trends I reported were published; however, when I started reporting deleterious or negative trends associated with varicella vaccine, these seemed to be suppressed.
Prior to the universal chickenpox vaccination program, 95% of adults experienced natural chickenpox (usually as schoolage children), which was usually benign and which resulted in
lifetime immunity. This high percentage of individuals with lifetime immunity has been compromised by mass vaccination of children, which provides at best 70–90% immunity that is temporary and of unknown duration, shifting chickenpox to a more vulnerable adult
population where it carries 20 times more risk of death and 15 times more risk of hospitalisation compared to children. Add to this the adverse effects of both the chickenpox and shingles
vaccines as well as the potential for increased risk of shingles for an estimated 30 to 50 years among adults. The Universal Varicella (chickenpox) Vaccination Program now requires booster vaccines that are less effective than the natural immunity that existed in communities prior to licensure of the varicella vaccine.
Routine vaccination against chickenpox has produced continual cycles of treatment and disease.