By the way, I’m gonna get flamed over here
Nov 20, 2007 Adoption, Feminism/Politics, Writing
I’m a Pro-Choice Adoptive Parent but I knew the flaming would happen because the editor (one of my earliest blog readers! Allison Kaplan Summer) warned me that the audience was very conservative.
I’m not going to read the comments but my mom (who is bursting her feminist buttons with pride!) says she bets I give in. No, I won’t because this isn’t an issue that translates well to internet debate. I mean, I don’t believe life begins at conception and (I assume) many of the commenters do. There’s just no bridging that gap. If you DO believe it, how can you NOT be appalled by abortion? And if you don’t believe it, then pro-choice just makes sense. Discussing this rationally in person is possible but I find that there’s just no way to do it on the internets.
November 20th, 2007 at 12:29 pm
FLAMES! OH NO!
I’m a pro-choice birth mom. That’s even CRAZIER!! lolz
November 20th, 2007 at 1:03 pm
That was a really thoughtful, well-thought-out piece. Wouldn’t it be cool if the internet could, sometimes, include thoughtful discussion of opposing views? And not just people going flipping CRAZY?
Yeah.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:36 pm
I went and read the whole piece (which I liked) and some of the comments, and can gladly assure you you are not missing a damn thing by skipping them. It is the traditional reactionary arguments you would have expected, and I couldn’t summon the interest to get past the first three since it appears they are all saying the same exact thing.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:39 pm
Redzils is right - you aren’t missing anything and they were saying the same thing.
Great piece Dawn.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:44 pm
The article is lovely and the comments are what you would expect them to be.
I am pro-choice, always have been. I’m a biomom and a foster mom.
I agree with what you have said here. It is not an issue that can be discussed unless people are listening to each other and the Internet is not a good forum for listening.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:48 pm
you may think this comment is biased, because i have mixed feelings about abortion. and its true, some of the comments to your abortion article are mean and hurtful. but in my humble opionion, you posted comments that may have hurt the poster. i therefore respectfully feel you perhaps have a responsibility to read the responses. you may not necessarily disagree with everything they say.
November 20th, 2007 at 1:59 pm
Oh my. I read the first twenty or so comments, and my head just about exploded.
Your piece, however, is lovely.
November 20th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
What a beautiful piece. You get it. Thank you very much. I agree with your decision not to read the comments. I won’t read them either to stand by you. Once again you opened my mind to think about things that I don’t often think of.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:41 pm
Yikes… the handful of comments I read made me a bit nauseous. Maybe you did upset them, but they have just as much ability to not read as you do.
I love the article.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Argh. Those comments make me scared about the people we live around!
But great article, Dawn! I admire the courage you have to respectfully put forth such an admirable opinion to people who aren’t admirable or respectful in return.
November 20th, 2007 at 3:47 pm
Oh, I wandered off and suddenly there was a song in my head… Did you see that thing Mani posted about the song Exactly? You can hear it here - http://www.myspace.com/amysteinberg
So, she sings about how if you look at her just right you can see the storm that created the breeze that moved her mother’s hair to catch her father’s eye and lead to their first interaction and eventually led to her. It just occurred to me that that’s the light in which I can see life beginning at conception.
Sure, my life began at conception. In the same way it began the day my grandmother bought that lovely dress for her first date with my grandfather. In the same way it will begin again when my eyes open tomorrow morning.
So, there’s that.
November 20th, 2007 at 4:17 pm
Of course I thought it was great piece, I agreed with every word. Adoption is a choice issue.
I can truly see the other side’s view. I would never tell someone they were wrong to believe when life begins. I can even see that if you believe all life begins (not just the life you carry) at conception, why you would want to stop abortion. It is a black and white issue for people with that belief system.
However, there are so many of us who see the shades of gray. I wish our voices were heard more often. I’m glad yours is out there.
It’s rare that I see honest give and take conversations, instead I hear nothing but accusations. There is no respectful, “I don’t agree with your beliefs.” Instead there are insults, belittling and finger pointing. I don’t believe we will ever find common ground unless both sides quit shouting. Maybe not even then. It may be such a black and white issue for too many that there will never be any middle ground.
November 20th, 2007 at 4:22 pm
I left a comment over there saying how much I resonated with your piece. So at least there will be one positive one among the people screaming.
The comments unfortunately confirmed your belief that it’s near impossible to calmly discuss such a difficult, complex issue on the internet.
November 20th, 2007 at 6:00 pm
Dawn, someday, I want to be as brave as you. And I am totally with you on not reading the comments. I used to work for NARAL, and in my experience, the only useful reason to say anything about abortion rights is to talk to the “mushy middle.” Everyone else knows what they think, and they are done arguing about it. On some level, those comments aren’t for you — you’ve made your position clear — and I bet those posters know it.
I left a comment there, as well, in case some of the mushy middle is actually reading.
By the way, the choice issue is one of the reasons I chose my “http://www.openadopt.org/PDFs/Dan%20Savage%20Shows%20Enthusiastic%20Support%20of%20Open%20Adoption%20PR1030.pdf”>agency.
And, did I say, “you rock!”
November 20th, 2007 at 6:02 pm
Darn it! I’m trying to be all slick with my small knowledge of html. Sigh.
Anyway, I’m not going to re-try to copy that link here. If you go to http://www.openadopt.org, and click on news and events and then click on the Dan Savage event, you will find a link to a press release that describes the agency I used as pro-choice in the first sentence. I love that!
November 20th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
I left a comment.
I’m pro-life, but I think I’m a nice person, so I didn’t flame you
Seriously though, being pro-life is one thing, but shoving it in the face of people all the time is quite another. If you don’t agree on abortion, civilized conversation is still possible. Geesh.
November 21st, 2007 at 1:25 am
The comments aren’t very interesting, so you’re not missing much. Just what you’d expect. I left a nice one. That makes three of something like 23, I think!
November 21st, 2007 at 1:44 am
Oh, Dawn, the article is great. And if Shannon above was the third supportive comment, consider mine numero four. Well-written, some powerful language. Brava!
November 21st, 2007 at 9:04 am
five!
i think the parallels you draw between both ends of the spectrum are interesting. both situations are one where the woman has no choice, and i’m glad that we have choices in both scenarios to decide what is best for ourselves and our families.
i also find it so interesting that this debate is usually so couched in religion, and that in jewish law, there are many more options and nuances.
November 21st, 2007 at 9:55 am
Great piece! You have more willpower than me to not read those hateful and judgemental comments!! I don’t think that anyone that knows Madison and your family could imagine life any other way! I think it was fate, but also glad it was a decision that was made out of choices.
Your pro-life friend!!
By the way, my husband took you off the wall of shame, I mean the fridge. Thanks!! And good thoughts to you and your Dad.
November 21st, 2007 at 12:37 pm
Six! Great job, Dawn.
November 21st, 2007 at 2:19 pm
Dawn,
All I can really say is… thank you for writing that article.
I did type out a long comment over there, so if you ever, in the distant future, do read the comments, it’s not ENTIRELY insults.
I so appreciate your ability and willingness to see the shades of gray in life, and also your ability to empathize with, it seems, just about everyone.
Thank you.
Nicole
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:11 am
Zealous flamers!! Not one of them anti-adoption I noticed! They don’t take into consideration the problems that bring about the “need” for abortion, they only want to shout murder and other such dramatic words.
If you really care about saving children then make the world an easier place for mothers so that when we are pregnant it’s not a crisis.
How about making laws stronger to “encourage” the fathers to be financially responsible. Free and good childcare in colleges, schools and workplaces. Free health insurance like they have in some countries.
p.s. great post Dawn!!
Special shops with affordable toys, books and clothes where you can give them back if they are still in good condition to be used by the next family.
A special sponsorship program with older mothers adopting younger/newer/vulnerable mothers, helping with advice, support and time.
Getting the media to drum up a positive image of single mothers.
All this is where their energy could be going, if you really want to stop abortions peoples then start by supporting mothers.