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	<title>Comments on: Thanks hasenpfeffer!</title>
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	<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/</link>
	<description>dawn friedman's blog</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 05:25:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Phoebe</title>
		<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/#comment-3795</link>
		<dc:creator>Phoebe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:22:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thiswomanswork.com/?p=1109#comment-3795</guid>
		<description>I'm the bio-mom to a mixed-race kid from an interracial lesbian relationship.  We used an anonymous donor primarily because a known donor would have given someone who wasn't an active co-parent more rights than my partner, who has been a SAHM to our daughter since she was born.  Finding a Chinese-Taiwanese donor was hard enough - an ID-release one was an impossibility.

When our daughter was 2, we were contacted by her bio-dad from my listing on the Donor Sibling Registry.  I see this as a huge gift for her - she has pictures of him, knows that he helped make her, will probably meet him when she's older.  We refer to him as bio-dad between ourselves and as [his first name] to her, primarily because she's still young enough that the distinction between roles and titles is too much for her.  (She gets *extremely* upset and confused if you say she has two moms - from her perspective, she has a mom and a mama, which isn't the same.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m the bio-mom to a mixed-race kid from an interracial lesbian relationship.  We used an anonymous donor primarily because a known donor would have given someone who wasn&#8217;t an active co-parent more rights than my partner, who has been a SAHM to our daughter since she was born.  Finding a Chinese-Taiwanese donor was hard enough - an ID-release one was an impossibility.</p>
<p>When our daughter was 2, we were contacted by her bio-dad from my listing on the Donor Sibling Registry.  I see this as a huge gift for her - she has pictures of him, knows that he helped make her, will probably meet him when she&#8217;s older.  We refer to him as bio-dad between ourselves and as [his first name] to her, primarily because she&#8217;s still young enough that the distinction between roles and titles is too much for her.  (She gets *extremely* upset and confused if you say she has two moms - from her perspective, she has a mom and a mama, which isn&#8217;t the same.)</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/#comment-3794</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 02:40:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>If not knowing the biological father is so terible, then why is society not harsher on single mothers, and the fathers who do not hold up on their end of the parenting bargain.  We seem to be so judgmental on adoptive parents or those who chose to build a family through sperm donation, but the other ills in society are just let go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If not knowing the biological father is so terible, then why is society not harsher on single mothers, and the fathers who do not hold up on their end of the parenting bargain.  We seem to be so judgmental on adoptive parents or those who chose to build a family through sperm donation, but the other ills in society are just let go.</p>
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		<title>By: dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 04:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thiswomanswork.com/?p=1109#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>"But I also think it's important that kids from donor gametes not romanticize that person as a Ã¢â‚¬Å“parent.Ã¢â‚¬Â"

Absolutely -- and I think that if we parents don't dismiss their feelings around it that we can be more sympathetic and more effective in helping them understand the likely limitations of having an actual *relationship* with that person.

"But I also think having their 2 moms dismissed as not a real family hurts kids considerably. And the two issues are intertwined for many families."

I agree. And I think that it's arguable that in a less heterosexist culture kids would be less likely to romanticize donors. I don't know though. I do think that some of our bio-bias is rooted in heterosexism but it's difficult to tease that out from an actual bio imperative to find out where we come from. Still, this is our reality and some kids are going to feel the need to track down their sperm donor father or egg donor mother or -- heck, embryo-donor parents. I feel like we (parents) need to get ahead of this so we can be prepared for it. I'd also like if the public discourse about this was less rooted in our "one mom, one dad" assumptions about families and then I think there'd be less need for families (both hetero and same sex) to feel defensive about their choices.

I do think that open adoption and the discussions it raises (and the mostly positive spin it tends to get these days in the media) will help families built with donors to find a new lens to consider the needs of their kids. *Some* of the issues are the same and it's makign it more acceptable to see that there are many ways for parents to be parents and that ultimately the kids get to decide what is meaningful to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But I also think it&#8217;s important that kids from donor gametes not romanticize that person as a Ã¢â‚¬Å“parent.Ã¢â‚¬Â&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely &#8212; and I think that if we parents don&#8217;t dismiss their feelings around it that we can be more sympathetic and more effective in helping them understand the likely limitations of having an actual *relationship* with that person.</p>
<p>&#8220;But I also think having their 2 moms dismissed as not a real family hurts kids considerably. And the two issues are intertwined for many families.&#8221;</p>
<p>I agree. And I think that it&#8217;s arguable that in a less heterosexist culture kids would be less likely to romanticize donors. I don&#8217;t know though. I do think that some of our bio-bias is rooted in heterosexism but it&#8217;s difficult to tease that out from an actual bio imperative to find out where we come from. Still, this is our reality and some kids are going to feel the need to track down their sperm donor father or egg donor mother or &#8212; heck, embryo-donor parents. I feel like we (parents) need to get ahead of this so we can be prepared for it. I&#8217;d also like if the public discourse about this was less rooted in our &#8220;one mom, one dad&#8221; assumptions about families and then I think there&#8217;d be less need for families (both hetero and same sex) to feel defensive about their choices.</p>
<p>I do think that open adoption and the discussions it raises (and the mostly positive spin it tends to get these days in the media) will help families built with donors to find a new lens to consider the needs of their kids. *Some* of the issues are the same and it&#8217;s makign it more acceptable to see that there are many ways for parents to be parents and that ultimately the kids get to decide what is meaningful to them.</p>
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		<title>By: shannon</title>
		<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/#comment-3792</link>
		<dc:creator>shannon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 02:41:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I do think how kids feel doesn't necessarily correlate with what I feel or even with fact.  So as I mentioned, we are completely willing to help her track the man down someday if it's possible.

But I also think it's important that kids from donor gametes not romanticize that person as a "parent."  The person probably didn't bargain for parenthood and the kids I've known who've found donors tend to be excited at first, disappointed later and more or less not interested in the end.

That's why if I did go the donor pg route, I'd want a known donor--same reason I want open adoptions.  It would allow the kids to keep it real all along.

But I also think having their 2 moms dismissed as not a real family hurts kids considerably.  And the two issues are intertwined for many families.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do think how kids feel doesn&#8217;t necessarily correlate with what I feel or even with fact.  So as I mentioned, we are completely willing to help her track the man down someday if it&#8217;s possible.</p>
<p>But I also think it&#8217;s important that kids from donor gametes not romanticize that person as a &#8220;parent.&#8221;  The person probably didn&#8217;t bargain for parenthood and the kids I&#8217;ve known who&#8217;ve found donors tend to be excited at first, disappointed later and more or less not interested in the end.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why if I did go the donor pg route, I&#8217;d want a known donor&#8211;same reason I want open adoptions.  It would allow the kids to keep it real all along.</p>
<p>But I also think having their 2 moms dismissed as not a real family hurts kids considerably.  And the two issues are intertwined for many families.</p>
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		<title>By: dawn</title>
		<link>http://www.thiswomanswork.com/2006/12/17/thanks-hasenpfeffer/#comment-3791</link>
		<dc:creator>dawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:18:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thiswomanswork.com/?p=1109#comment-3791</guid>
		<description>Shannon you said, "I also think there is a difference between a parent and a biological tie through gametes.  ... But a parent is a social, relational term to me and I don't think gamete donors are mothers or fathers.
... I feel quite differently about men who impregnate women, especially when they take no relational role in the child's life (and perhaps don't know or care about its existence at all)."

This is my first thought, too (I was just talking to Jessica about this) but the thing is, the *kids* don't necessarily feel this way. And while we parents may feel comfortable dismissing egg donors/sperm donors as parents, our children might have different ideas. I think we ought to be prepared for that.

Erin said, "There really are additional layers to building a family as a lesbian or gay couple."

Absolutely. That's why I said there were likely issues I wasn't getting in the "don't congratulate the sperm donor" discussion. But again, who knows how the kids will feel. I think it's important to plan for every contingency. I do think it's absolutely unfair and unjust that non-bio parents in same-sex relationships don't have parental rights but this is separate from the issue of a child wanting contact with the man or woman who donated half the biological resources to their creation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shannon you said, &#8220;I also think there is a difference between a parent and a biological tie through gametes.  &#8230; But a parent is a social, relational term to me and I don&#8217;t think gamete donors are mothers or fathers.<br />
&#8230; I feel quite differently about men who impregnate women, especially when they take no relational role in the child&#8217;s life (and perhaps don&#8217;t know or care about its existence at all).&#8221;</p>
<p>This is my first thought, too (I was just talking to Jessica about this) but the thing is, the *kids* don&#8217;t necessarily feel this way. And while we parents may feel comfortable dismissing egg donors/sperm donors as parents, our children might have different ideas. I think we ought to be prepared for that.</p>
<p>Erin said, &#8220;There really are additional layers to building a family as a lesbian or gay couple.&#8221;</p>
<p>Absolutely. That&#8217;s why I said there were likely issues I wasn&#8217;t getting in the &#8220;don&#8217;t congratulate the sperm donor&#8221; discussion. But again, who knows how the kids will feel. I think it&#8217;s important to plan for every contingency. I do think it&#8217;s absolutely unfair and unjust that non-bio parents in same-sex relationships don&#8217;t have parental rights but this is separate from the issue of a child wanting contact with the man or woman who donated half the biological resources to their creation.</p>
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