Sibling spacing
Dec 10, 2005 Parenting
In my homeschool post below, Shannon said:
I keep thinking if I get more organized I’ll feel less strung out. Hmmm… perhaps not. And the idea that rather than a toddler and an eight year-old, I’m likely to have a toddler and a baby? Okay, that is making me want to cry after reading how you manage things and how much help Noah can be.
I don’t know where I could find what the most likely spacing between siblings is but anecdotally, it seems like most people with some control over their family size have kids somewhere around two or three years apart, give or take. I’m 32 months younger than my sister and 27 months older than my brother and we seemed pretty typical. Brett and his next brother are 19 months apart and that also seems fairly common. It looks like people in the US without fertility issues tend to — on purpose and by accident — get pregnant sometime between their first child’s first and second birthday. (Among people who are less well-nourished and who breastfeed exclusively for a longer time, the age span seems larger. But here in the US it looks like even women who breastfeed exclusively find their fertility returns sooner likely because we’re so chock-full of vitamins, fortified or not.)
If you talk to people about sibling spacing, everyone has an opinion. And if you talk to enough people, you’ll find a lot of different opinions. I think this age span between my two kids has worked out really well. Noah hasn’t had much trouble adjusting (and I know he would have had my original plan to deliver a baby when he was around four) and he’s a big help. Madison enjoys being the treasured baby of the family and Noah — content to be the important eldest — likes to treasure her. The downside is that my baby-care muscles were totally rusty and unlike the first time where I found every new thing Noah did absolutely remarkable, I expect Madison to move along quite nicely and so I’m not applauding all she does. In fact, I feel so anxious for her to be three (that’s probably why she’s leaping ahead with all of her gross motor ability — she senses my impatience) because three is going to be so much easier. (I love 3-year olds and I especially love having a 3-year old in my house!)
I can see how having them just 2-3 years apart would be a lot easier this way. It would more demanding physically but then you’re in the mode. It’s not like you got all used to having control over your own days so what’s adding another to the mix? I forgot what it’s like to not be able to read a book on the couch and so I’m very whiny about it. Had I gotten Madison when Noah was three, I never would have picked that book up in the first place. And then their interests are so different. Manging teensy legos and Madison the Queen of Ingesting Inappropriate Things is no fun.
The other thing about having them close together (and this is what I told my sister-in-law whose daughter turned one in November and is expecting another baby next August) is that if you have a career to think about, you’re able to consolidate the time when you’re less focused on it or taking a break entirely. I’ve had to pretty much resign myself to not doing any of the writing I want to do until Madison is bigger (Three three three — I’m hanging in there for three!) and that’s really hard. It pains me and I miss it and I periodically try to do it and then remember why I decided I couldn’t. If I’d had them closer together, I’d just have a chunk of intense parenting instead of two chunks that don’t overlap at all.
As far as how kids get along, I don’t think you can predict it. So much depends on personality. I know that a close-in-age sibling would have really sucked for Noah (who was a very very intense infant and toddler and preschooler) but I can see how Madison would bounce back although I’m sure her throwing of the toys would step up. (My god, this child throws things.) And I bet she’d hit the baby, too, but I also think she would smooch on him/her a lot.
If I had it to do over again and had been able to control the timing of my kids’ arrivals, I would keep it this way, I think. Well, yeah, sure I would — I’m very happy with my family. That said, I used to think that people who had their babies less than two years apart were CRAZY (especially tandem nursing — it was the number one reason we didn’t start trying ’til Noah was three — there was no way I could have survived tandem nursing) but now I think it looks pretty good.
What do you guys think? If you have more than one kid, how has the age range worked for you and how has it not worked?
December 10th, 2005 at 12:53 pm
Our kids (both adopted) are 3.5 years apart, and it works for us. I loved my kids as babies and felt I could really enjoy each period because my son was getting independent by the time his sister came around. They fight quite a bit now that they are 11 and 8, but they still have things in common with each other, so I hope they will be close as they grow into adulthood and beyond. I always wanted 4 kids–so if I had had my druthers (& no infertility), I probably would have had 4 kids 2 years apart. But 3.5 years works, too. And with unforseen health problems that cropped up in my early 30s, it is just as well that I have two kids and not four. It took me a long time to appreciate this.
HMBalison
December 10th, 2005 at 1:23 pm
My little boy is just over two and a half and I’m wondering whether we should start trying for number 2 or not… We said we’d start when DS was 2, but I really didn’t feel ready for a lot of different reasons. Half of me wants another baby and the other half things how the hell would I handle a 3 year old and a baby at the same time, sometimes handling the toddler is hard enough for me!
My older sisters were 18 months apart and my Mother always said that was too close! There are 4 years between me and the next one up and 3.5 between me and my younger sister and both of those spans were fine, so I’m keeping that in mind when I wonder when to have another.
December 10th, 2005 at 3:13 pm
My kids are 8.5 yrs apart and though I was completely optimistic through the pregnancy with my son and would get really upset when someone would suggest that it might not be great, I have to say, it has not been great. I love both my kids but their needs are so wildly disparate that it makes it extra challenging to meet them. There is a lot of resentment and jealousy despite my best efforts to prevent that.
My brother is nine yrs older than me and we didn’t get along til we were adults, either.
I did have several miscarriages after having my daughter–3–and so I was so delighted to receive the blessing of my son.
I just repeat to myself…”The days are long, the years are short.”
December 10th, 2005 at 5:21 pm
we planned to have our kids 3 to 4 years apart, but infertility got in the way. by the time micah joined our family, trixie was 6 years old. the first year that was great — micah basically hung out in the sling and nursed 24/7, and trixie barely noticed. now there’s more tension — he always wants to play with trix and her friends, and they mostly see him as a big pest, which really is reasonable. i probably pawn him off on them more than i should… we’re currently thinking about adopting another, and the spacing will likely be 4+ years between that one and micah (if we do this at all…) in the end, i really think there’s no such thing as the “right” or “best” spacing. best to just make the best of whatever you get.
December 10th, 2005 at 5:22 pm
we planned to have our kids 3 to 4 years apart, but infertility got in the way. by the time micah joined our family, trixie was 6 years old. the first year that was great — micah basically hung out in the sling and nursed 24/7, and trixie barely noticed. now there’s more tension — he always wants to play with trix and her friends, and they mostly see him as a big pest, which really is reasonable. i probably pawn him off on them more than i should… we’re currently thinking about adopting another, and the spacing will likely be 4+ years between that one and micah (if we do this at all…) in the end, i really think there’s no such thing as the “right” or “best” spacing. best to just make the best of whatever you get.
December 10th, 2005 at 6:01 pm
We have two boys, 17 months apart in age. Oldest is 2.5 and Youngest is 1.
It is pretty chaotic around here at times. No matter how organized we are, there are two little people who both have to be fed, clothed, bathed, changed… The physical demands are more than I expected. I keep thinking, “How great will it be when I have at least one child who can dress himself, or make his own cereal, or use the toilet?!?!”
But! They adore each other (in a brutal kind of toddler way), and one will ask for the other if they are apart. When they got old enough to play together (compared to playing separately in the same room) they will entertain each other well. I hope their relationship will be close because of how much of their day-to-day lives they have shared.
Family activities might be easier to plan with kids close in age. When ours are 3 and 4, or when they are 13 and 14, they will likely enjoy more of the same family games/activities/books than would a 3 and a 7, or a 13 and an 18.
What works for a particular family just depends on so many variables.
I don’t know if I could have planned my family any better, or any worse!
December 10th, 2005 at 6:25 pm
I have four–the oldest two are just under two years apart (now 8 and 6) and the youngest two are just over two years apart (now 25 months and four days!)
The spacing works for us but the first year or two of Isaac’s life was intense and I expect it’ll be similiar this time–maybe only slightly less so because Jacob, my oldest, is so helpful and I’m no longer insecure as a parent like I was then, so I am easier on myself. I think you’re right that there are benefits both ways–in my situation after the intensity of Isaac’s first couple of years, I just needed a break from babies and toddlers. It would have been much worse for me if I’d had another baby when Isaac was two, say. But having two closeish together and then a four-year break and then another was pretty easy, and while I expect it to get tough again for a while here, it’ll pay off down the road when they are five and three and start really playing together (at least that’s how it worked for my older boys).
There’s always a tradeoff–you either have the one big chunk of intensity or it gets spread out and you forget. But I couldn’t do my family size, four kids, any other way. I need them to be somewhat teamed up for my sanity! If I had two kids, I can see it working either way.
December 10th, 2005 at 6:30 pm
I just wonder how much of people feeling like they spaced siblings the right amount apart is just getting used to the advantages of your situation, and not being able to imagine the advantages of doing it some other way? I rarely seem to run into people who don’t like the ibling spacing they have. What is to say that your 8 year gap is better for you than 6 or 10?
On the other hand, a person can probably roughly group themselves as wanting closely-spaced siblings or not. Dawn you obviously never wanted closely-spaced, so maybe you would have been equally happy with anywhere from 5 to 10 years spacing but not 2-3.
We wanted close spacing — but have been working on baby #2 now for a few months and no luck yet. My daughter is 20 months … So I may end up with a bigger gap than I planned for, we’ll see what happens!
December 10th, 2005 at 8:23 pm
I’ve got twins, and while that first year was definitely grueling, now I’m so glad I had twins. I am much better with toddlers and preschoolers than babies, and watching my friends try to juggle a baby and preschoolar makes me shiver. Also, once the issue-du-jour is over, I know it’s really over. Like pottytraining– the girls are out of diapers, which means I had three and a half years of changing diapers, and now no more, ever again. It’s liberating. Also, the older they get, the more time I get to myself, even more, I think, than I would have with just one– I rearely have to entertain them. They spend incredible amounts of time making up their own songs and games, and I’m not necessary in their play at all– not that I don’t join in, but I never have to be Dora the Explorer, you know?
December 10th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
Well, my boys are 2 years 3 months apart (the 2nd one was “an accident”), and it’s not easy at all. Especialy the tandem nursing part - you’re right about that one. My oldest is 3 years 9 months, and nurses only once a day, and he doesn’t want to wean (he’d nurse more if I let him) both because he sees his brother and also it seems that he feels it’s very important for him. They’re starting to play together, which is nice, but they do get very jealous of each other regarding my attention, which is very hard on me… I think when the kids are farther apart like in your case it IS definitely easier…
December 10th, 2005 at 9:24 pm
My ds is four and a half, and we’re waiting for our baby from Ethiopia. If we’d had our way, we wouldn’t have such a big gap - ds is finally old enough to go to the symphony! sit through a meal! etc. On the other hand, ds is also old enough to be thrilled about the prospect of “our” baby, and to already be assigning baby care tasks to be sure he doesn’t have to take care of diapers. He’s fairly independent, so he likes that we know that he will still need his own space, toys that she can’t play with because she’ll be too young, etc. And he’s helping prepare the nursery with no envy.
So there will be some advantages, even as _I_ secretly envy (a bit) the 2.5 yr spacing of the families we’re close to . . .
December 10th, 2005 at 11:46 pm
Well, I have said plenty on both sides of the issue when it comes to our spacing, but I know you’re not talking about three kids in five minutes here. I will say that my opinion about the pros vs. the cons and the balance between the two has switched around from stage to stage. I go through times when I think, oh yeah, doing it all at once does balance out better in the end, and other times when I know just as fiercely that any amount of space, even if it’s only 11 months, would be better.
Not that I borrow trouble or anything
but I think that having some space would be nice when the oldest hits college. To go from three kids to zero might (if they all go, and all go at once) be quite a shock.
But really I was posting to say that I read somewhere that the US average spacing between siblings is trending down toward 18 months, from a high between 2.5 to 3 (obviously that average gets its strength from the fertile 85% who have some measure of control) and that the tightening of the spacing, to the extent to start at all — so they perceive they have less time to try again — and also wanting to resume full-time careers sooner. I thought that was intriguing, because women in the 1950s, for all we think of them as domestic Goddesses, tended to cluster their births closely, too. And although they aimed for 3 or 4 instead of 1 or 2, and were less explicit about careers (although many of them did return to work eventually), they all agreed that the incentive for keeping the spacing small was to get the baby/toddler stuff out of the way as quickly as possible.
T. Berry Brazelton, in Touchpoints, says there’s this very common desire when a firstborn child is 5 or 6 months to have another baby. The baby you have is becoming mobile, and from the perspective of first-time parenthood, it feels (so Brazelton claims) as if the baby has gone, and it’s time to make a new one. He says he fields questions about “should we start trying again” at either the six or nine month appointments from most of his patients planning on having more than one child. And he always advises that they wait: I think Brazelton thinks the 3-year spacing is optimal.
There have also beens scientific studies of what spacing is least stressful on the mother, pysiologically and psychologically. I want to say that those studies conclude the body would like to have at least 18 months, and preferably 2.5 years, before giving birth again. But if you wait “too many” years (4+?), supposedly then the physical risks go up again. I remember reading the news release about that study and thinking, how perfectly useless for most women that information will be. Because I’m guessing that for most people, it’s a much more intuitive plan, even when it goes right.
Three of my four closest friends growing up were youngest siblings whose next oldest sibling was at least 6 years older. In all those cases, there were at least two older siblings. And the tag-along, or surprise baby, felt left out, and neglected, and deprived. Maybe it was my friends, maybe it was the surprise-baby issue, who knows. But growing up, I thought my perfect set-up would be to have four kids: 8, 6, 2, and newborn. (Yes, I actually thought about this stuff.) I imagined myself loving the newborn stage enough to want to have it a LOT, but also wanting a bit of a rest in the middle, and not wanting to leave one kid on the unbalanced side of the divide.
Obviously I was a really weird kid.
December 11th, 2005 at 8:10 am
My first two kids are 23 months apart, and when people ask me about that spacing (and how it plays out in the early years, that is) I usually tell them “Ninety percent of the time it’s wonderful and ten percent of the time it’s the deepest pit of hell.” M y third is 4 1/2 years younger than the second. They are all very close and get along well most of the time, but I feel like in some ways I lost ten straight years of my life as an individual, because I don’t seem to really come up for intellectual and spiritual air until a child is at least 3. On the other side, my brother and I are 8 1/2 years apart and we really weren’t close until adulthood–he might disagree with that, but since he won’t read this I’ll be blunt: I really didn’t _like_ him very much until we were both adults. I think every family constellation is part of God’s plan–it’s part of what makes us who we are, and every kind is valuable because of the personalities and life skills it engenders.
December 11th, 2005 at 11:45 am
Wow– Jody’s quote from Brazelton is spot on– I know for me they really seem “all grown up” around 5-6 months. One of my favorite parenting gurus (Burton White) also recommends the 3 year spacing. I know a hard part for me with the 7 yr difference is the realization that I find babies easier to parent– their problems easier to solve, and discipline isn’t relevant so there’s no qualms about “am I trying to bulldoze him with my authority because it’s easier for me, or do I really believe in [whatever I'm attempting to enforce]?” I was in the swing of 7 yr old parenting before the babes were born, but now I have a comparison and the babies just seem to cause me less emotional conflict. But they grow up, so that aspect of the job is coming to an end.
December 11th, 2005 at 12:27 pm
My kids are 3 years apart. I had hoped for a 2 year gap but a miscarriage and timing changed things. I would not talk about another baby until DS was a year old. I was wiped out and still wanted time to regain some composure before #2 even after his 1st birthday. I felt “ready” when he was almost two.
We were getting the final handle on DS’s potty training when DD was 3 months old. DS is old enough to go the amuesment parks now and DD would get tired of the stroller very quickly. I’m frustrated with that. But, DS is a great helper with DD and they are starting to play together. (DS just hit DD.. why did I say they were playing together?)
DH would like to have two more kids (I’m still getting used to the idea of one more) and we’re not planning on trying until DS is 5 and a half and DD is 28 months. This is for my health (I had WLS when DD was 11 months) and sanity. I dream of the next two being closer so the “baby stage” is over faster.
I like to believe it would be different if I were fertile. I have to get myself geared up for the fertility treatments, pregnancy, and infanthood. Thankfully, the fertility treatments have worked in the first couple of tries. But, I have to be prepare for the worst case scenerio. It’s a mental process that makes me wonder at times why I even went past one child. I dreamed of 4 kids growing up. I dreamed of one baby once I was diagnosed with infertility (PCOS). I’ve been blessed with two and even though the age gap is bigger than I would have liked it is working for us.
Wow that was long and off topic!
December 11th, 2005 at 4:53 pm
My two kidlets are almost three years apart and I know that that worked well for us because I don’t have the patience to mother two babies at once. The first year was quite difficult, like being pulled in two directions at once all day, everyday, but after that we settled into a nice harmony.
They are very good friends at 7 and 10 and I expect that they will be very close to any future baby siblings that they are blessed with.
Short point of this rambling comment: I think what the parents can handle is the best guide for spacing and whether or not the children get along is due partially to personality and partially parenting. More the former than the latter.
December 11th, 2005 at 6:56 pm
Mine are almost 8 years apart, Dawn–no fertility issues, just a really intense infancy with number 1. Early on there were some problems–she was really unprepared for having competition, and we had forgotten everything. But I now really like it–they are (almost) 16 and 8. He (the young one) is very competitive with her, but she’s old enough to ignore it for the most part. I’m 20 months younger than my older sibling, 3-1/2 years older than the next, 6 years older than the baby (so we were almost that 8, 6, 2, newborn family Jody dreamed of), and I am only close to my youngest sibling, my sister. These things are hard to figure, aren’t they? I’m with radmama: it’s up to what the parents can handle, mostly.
December 11th, 2005 at 9:39 pm
Mallory is 14 (today) Aubree is 11, Linley is 7 and Mason in 3.5. The oldest are 2.5 years apart, But the rest are close to 4 years apart. I don’t know what is better. They all seem to fight and love each other. I know most of the time I feel 10 years is too much space between the oldest and youngest. Like today we went to the movies and had to find a sitter for Mason. I will be a parent to children at home for 29 years. That seems long. On the other hand, my two oldest are great babysitters that afford me a lot of freedom I didn’t have when they were little. Nothing is perfect, however I think I wish they were 14, 12, 10 and 8. All of them 2 years apart seems easier to me.
December 12th, 2005 at 11:48 pm
My family has almost the exact same spacing as yours, I have a son from my first marriage who is 24 and a daughter from my second who is 15, 95 years apart. Sometimes I joke that I ended up with a set of only children. Like you I benefited from having help from the older and the younger enjoyed being the baby of the family. The age gap and the gender gap really help me and them not to be competitive or to compare each other.
December 13th, 2005 at 1:23 am
Five years between the oldest daughter and the youngest. Wouldn’t have had it any other way, although before the oldest was born I thought two years was the optimal spacing.
Oldest one is in college now, and the youngest one in high school. They were very close from the start and after a few years when the oldest one was in high school and didn’t like any of us, they are once again the best of friends.
December 13th, 2005 at 4:48 am
That T. Berry Brazelton, about most people think of starting again when their first is around 6 or 7 months seems spot on, based on the majority of my friends, but completely impossible to related to for me. Even when said friends were giving birth 9 months later I was nowhere near wanting to be pregnant again - I’d hold their babies and they’d tease me about being clucky but secretly I wasn’t remotely interested and couldn’t wait to hand them back!
As to idea spacing, I replied with my experience (such as it is) on my blog…
July 18th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
I am pregnant with my 4th child due the end of January and they will all be 18 months apart. Oldest will be 4/12, then 3, then 1 1/2 & newborn. We planned it this way and are thrilled. I have my own business and work about 35-40 hours/week. We have an au pair who is absolutely wonderful. My husband and I are both from big familes (6 & 7 kids) so we always wanted at least 4 children (and 4 will most likely be the final #!!). We have been blessed with healthy kids that all sleep (I have let them cry very early on and they all do learn how to sleep on their own). I think you can get through anything as long as you can get some sleep - important for baby & for parents alike. We are excited to have our house more full soon and sure, we might “have our hands full” [as others like to call it] but we’d take our hands full of adorable kids over so many other things anyday, anytime! Having a positive attitude can get you through anything!