Yet more discussion
Dec 16, 2004 Homeschooling
I really want to blab about Meagan’s visit but you guys raise too many good discussison topics!!!
I wish I could address every interesting issue folks raised but I’m going to go with direct questions because I’ve been gone all day and I’m beat.
Before I do anything, I want to say that I didn’t mean to imply that Katie saw the program for which she worked as a definitive measure of success or failure. Mostly I was trying to use it as an example of seeing education — any education — as part of a process and not as a means to the end. So, you know, failing is only failing that particular thing and it can be a great opportunity. Not that I want my kids to fail repeatedly and just grin and say, “Wow, that was a great learning experience!” But I’d like them to have a good attitude about the vagaries of life.
Just wanted to get that out there. Oh and another thing, as always, remember that this is just the babbling of one woman and so quite possibly totally irrelevant to anyone else’s life. Take me with a large chunk of kosher salt. On to the questions.
Anna asked: how do you know ahead of time a child is someone for whom school will really click, the way it did for me?
I don’t think you can be absolutely certain ahead of time so I think you need to make your own best guess. But because school might click with a child doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s the best option. This question assumes that school is a default position (and yes I know that for most families it is) and that if a child is enjoying school, then it’s the best place for her. It might be, then again, it might not. I originally wanted to homeschool because I thought that the school system wasn’t so hot but now I want to homeschool because I think that homeschooling is so hot. In other words, I’m no longer running from the school system; I’m running towards homeschooling.
And then Anna asked: Also, assuming we are anti-test, how can we differentiate between the schools that are genuinely life-sucking and the schools like the ones I went to that, while not “good,” are places where very good things are happening?
Short answer? I don’t know. I can only look at the educational experience of my son and say, “Is this working?” And when I look at how the standardized testing is playing out in our school district and look at my son, I say, “Yeah, that totally won’t be working.” I think that there are very good things happening at many schools and I know that a devoted, understanding and passionate teacher is a really wonderful thing. I would just rather find those teachers out here in the homeschooling community.
You’ve got to understand — to appreciate homeschooling you need to make a paradigm shift. Sometimes when I’m talking to someone about why we homeschool, I can see that they just don’t get it; it’s like trying to explain snow to someone who has never left the Caribbean. The first part of the shift is to say to yourself, “Just because school is our culture’s default position, doesn’t mean it’s always right.” If you want another perspective on schooling, check out anything by John Taylor Gatto. You may love him, you may hate him. He may change your life, he may bore you silly. But if this discussion has engaged you, he’s much smarter than I am and better read on education, too. Even if he doesn’t make you want to homeschool, which is not my goal either, he does have some interesting things to say about the current way we educate kids. I’m not meaning to put down every school or to say that a good school experience is invalid either; I’m just trying to explain my own deal here.
Another thing to understand is that because school and homeschooling are fundamentally different, there are things that one can give you that the other cannot. This goes both ways. There is certainly something extra-sweet about sneaking a quick read from your book hidden under your desk, slipping a note to a friend about meeting up at recess, or hearing your teacher read a paper out-loud and realizing with a shock and quick flush that it’s yours. Noah will likely never have those things. That’s true. But then a schooled kid is missing out on stuff, too. There is also something pretty wonderful about being there when your little sister takes her first steps, sleeping every morning until your body wakes you up, or as Noah just said, “Having your mother to help you because M. [friend going to school] says the teachers don’t listen very well.” I think that it’s sometimes easier to see the benefits to school because, well, we all went to school so we know what it’s like — we concretely know what they would be missing.
BJ said this, I believe that the main point of school is to allow kids a place to separate from their parents. My goal for my children (who both go to preschool) is that their world not be limited by my own imagination. I want them to be exposed to other people’s way of thinking, creating, writing, seeing. I don’t see any way of making this happen, other than having them spending time in places where I am not controlling the environment.
I’m tempted to say something not so nice here because I’m rankled by BJ’s comfortable confession that she “detests” homeschooling. Hey, I wouldn’t come to your blog and say I detested your choices but so be it. (By the way, BJ, my cousin graduated from Centennial in 1989, I believe.)
I think it’s a pretty major assumption to say that a homeschooled child — specifically my homeschooled child — is limited by his parent’s imagination. Noah is exposed to other people’s way of thinking, creating, writing, and seeing. In fact, I’d say that he’s exposed to a wider variety of viewpoints than your average public schooled second grader because he’s not in the care of a single teacher thirty hours a week. (True, some kids also get a weekly visit from an art, music and/or phys ed teacher.) He participates in a variety of activities led by other adults. This has been true for every homeschooler I know in real life. Oh wait, except for one in my husband’s extended family who is homeschooling from a rigid, fundamentalist point of view but I digress. Ironically, considering BJ’s assumptions, one reason I homeschool is that I want him to have a broader vision than I think he’d get at school. And I don’t think he needs to spend 30+ hours at school to learn how to be his own person.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on that one.
BJ also said, I’m interested in hearing how and how much time you think Noah spends with others. And, how do you think this will evolve as he grows older? Do you think he’ll want more separation from you?
This week Noah has had a social event with other children every single day — formal or informal. Other weeks are calmer but he averages, let me see, four days a week when he’s spending time with other children and/or adults. Starting the new year, that’ll be five days because he’s joined a homeschooling ski club and will be doing that with his grandparents. (I don’t ski. No way. I’ll sip hot chocolate but I have no interest in hurtling downhill with sticks strapped to my feet.)
How will it evolve as it grows older? I don’t know. Most older homeschoolesr I know take on internships or actual jobs. Some of them audit college classes or pick up classes at the local high school. (Not all districts allow this.)
The homeschooled kids I know aren’t being raised like hothouse flowers. Most of them are busy in the community living their lives and learning about the world in concrete ways.
There’s an interesting book by Mary Pipher, author of Reviving Ophelia. The Shelter of Each Other addresses questions like these:
What is family business vs. the business of the state? What is the balance between family unity and individual independence? What are the relations between parents and children? Who does what work? How are children socialized into the culture? How are values passed from one generation to the next?
The cultural assumption is that children learn and grow best away from their parents and in the company of their peers; I don’t agree with this. Instead, I believe that children learn best when they share time with their peers but spend the bulk of their elementary years in the company of their parents. Feel free to disagree with me and make different choices but if you’re interested in thinking further about the ways that families sustain their children, check out the book. (She looks at a homeschooling family in a positive way but doesn’t say that everyone should homeschool.)
December 17th, 2004 at 4:38 am
Ooh, did my question launch this new wealth of homeschooling/unschooling entries and comments?
Thanks to Dawn for addressing my question, and for the kind words about my comment. I’m enjoying reading the conversations, but actually I think I didn’t express my question clearly enough.
What had struck me about the original entry (”A second unschool entry,” regarding The Little Prince and other related media and topics) was that it seemed as if what was being said was, “Here is what homeschooling/unschooling allows us to be able to do.” That’s fine, but in my experience it can be normal for parents and children to do these kinds of projects and investigations, where the topic of interest covers or leads to a wide-range of subjects and approaches. Bedtime reading and discussion of many topics are certainly common. So, this didn’t seem, to me, like something special about homeschooling/unschooling, hence my query. Homeschooling/unschooling might allow for this, but attendance at regular school doesn’t preclude this either.
A more recent entry (”Two good questions & my answers”) describes an experience of seeing a huge bird and going on to research it, as well as the experiences of some other children with their own projects. Again, these good projects don’t seem unique to homeschooling/unschooling, because in my experience children who go to regular school can still have these experiences outside of school.
These teachable moments, these interest-led investigations and projects can happen at any time for the regular school student and parent — during afternoons and evenings, weekends and days off, summer and other vacations. In fact, a younger child, a child not old enough for any kind of school, might have these types of experiences; the child might express an interest in something observed during daily walks, learn in depth about this topic by being read library books concerning the topic, and be taken to places to experience even more about this topic. Isn’t this type of learning what children do, and parents — who are able — facilitate doing, from the very beginning, even simply in the course of daily or weekly happenings at home such as cooking, crafts, and observing holidays? What makes this an “unschooling technique” specifically?
I made sure in my original comment to stress that I wasn’t advocating one or the other (homeschooling/unschooling or regular school) because I really wasn’t, and I didn’t want my comment to sound as if I were saying “children can have regular school as well as these experiences, so that’s the way it should be, and I dismiss that as a reason to homeschool” because I was certainly not trying to insist upon that. I feared that pointing out that regular schooling does not preclude these experiences might make it sound as if I were saying that therefore there is no reason not to choose regular schooling, when that was not my reason for noting that. I see lots of benefits to homeschooling/unschooling and lots of problems with regular schooling (as well as some problems with homeschooling/unschooling and some benefits to regular schooling). The aim of my comment was not to judge or advocate either approach; rather, I was noticing that this particular type of experience is not limited to those who homeschool or unschool, that being in regular school does not preclude having these experiences at home or otherwise outside of school, so I was asking not for explanation behind the choice to homeschool, but for clarification about what specifically about these experiences is special about homeschooling/unschooling, is unique and only available to those who homeschool/unschool and wouldn’t be possible if attendance at regular school were involved. What am I missing?
Now, maybe there is not anything unique to homeschooling/unschooling about these experiences, and Dawn was not trying to say that there were, and was simply describing some good experiences. But if the point were in fact to say that this is a unique benefit to homeschooling/unschooling, or has aspects that are unique, I’d be interested to understand that. So far, I am extrapolating from Dawn’s mention of having more time that perhaps, when regular school is not part of the equation, there is more time for more of these experiences than there would otherwise be, or that the bulk of the curriculum can develop this way instead of having more rigid regular school with these experiences being “extras.” Is that accurate, and what else about these “homeschooling moments,” if anything, is unique to homeschooling/unschooling, and differentiates them from similar experiences a regular school student and parent might constantly have outside of school?
Wow, I went from a short question to a long, verbose, soapbox-stealing monster of a post. I hope I at least still come across as polite and sincere. Thanks!